Other Ways to Lose your Money!
Guess who lost a licence for "Clocking cars"?
The Trade Centre Wales
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Vehicle: Renault Laguna
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I had been looking for something from the Rover 600 range but was open to suggestions. Mark showed me a
Peugeot 406 Executive with, as he put it, all the toys. Sure enough it did, leather seats, electric everything including
adjustable seats with electronic memories for different drivers.
Having a look around the car I decided it wasn't for me due to the poor condition of some internal and external trim.
For example the trim on the exterior door pillars. Mark said there was no problem, I could leave a deposit and they would rectify this
and if I wasn't happy I could have my deposit back. I said no, there were other things such as a badly repaired front bumper and
long scratches down the near side. I couldn't have expected them to correct all of these, and there were just too many small items that indicated it had
led a hard life.
We glanced at a couple of other cars including a Vauxhall, a Daewoo and a Citroen. Then I mentioned that the Peugeot 406 (not the Executive above) wasn't bad but the seat had burns on it.
No problem they could get that done, just leave a deposit etc.
Then Mark says, what about this Renault Laguna? A very nice car on the surface although the glove box door came off in his hand! But, to be
fair he said they would fix that along with a couple of other very minor defects that I pointed out.
Mark wrote on the paperwork, under Work Required, PDI (pre delivery inspection), valet, M.O.T., repair glove box, repair inside trim on
N/S front wheel arch, touch up back O/S door. When he asked me to sign I pointed out that the paperwork says Deposits are only transferable and not refundable.
No problem, he writes on the paperwork Subject to Test Drive.
Now my first mistake, I signed the paperwork believing what Mark had said about returning the deposit and believing that his final endorsement of Subject to Test Drive confirmed this.
The offer of a credit note was repeated, and subsequently withdrawn when I declined it. I asked Nicky Gee to confirm the spelling of his name, and his position, which he did and added that if I was going to write then I needed to write to the legal department as this happens all the time. I thanked him
and said that I hadn't intended to and then he left me to return to the general area of collections.
On the way out I asked Mark Steed to confirm that he had said the deposit was refundable and that the transaction was subject to a test drive. He said yes, but you've had a test drive and the car is OK.
However, enthusiastic salespeople may innocently give the impression that
a non refundable deposit will be refunded if you are not satisfied with the car when driven.
1. Revisit The Trade Centre Wales and have a look at another vehicle, or two, to transfer the deposit to.
2. Abandon it and put it down to experience.
OFT revokes Swansea motor dealer's credit licence
Consumer credit licensing annual update
CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974
Thursday 1 July 2004 14:08
Convicted clocker selling cars
MOTOR DEALER LOSES LICENCE The Saga
Wednesday 24th March 2004
Visit the Trade Centre Wales looking for a used car, and was greeted by Mark Steed.
Mark was very friendly, welcoming and helpful.
The showroom is impressive and the range of cars considerable, it looked as though I had chosen wisely. Their advert on The Wave was just the ticket
and had brought me to this magnificent emporium of pre owned motor vehicles
I wasn't able to test drive the car that evening but no problem, they would remedy the minor defects, just leave a deposit and if you're not happy you'll get your deposit back.
It was a more expensive car than I had originally been looking for, but it did look very nice. So I agreed to leave a £200 deposit.
It was arranged that I would collect the car on Monday 29th March after 6.00 p.m.
Sunday 28th March 2004
I telephoned The Trade Centre Wales to ask if I could test drive the car, with my wife, that day. No problem, Mark Steed wasn't in
but come up and see Mark Gosnell, in collections, and I could take it for a test drive.
Off we go and see Mark Gosnell, he brings the car around to the front of the building and the wife and I set off.
The car seemed a bit unresponsive, but I put that down to the engine being cold. However, after a couple of miles it was apparent
that there was a misfire. I drove back into the car park of The Trade Centre Wales to be greeted by Mark Gosnell asking how was it.
Rubbish, I replied, it's as lumpy as anything. Mark looked concerned and started it up, he agreed there was a misfire and suggested that
it was condensation in the distributor from being steam cleaned. We agreed that I would take another test drive on the Monday when I called to collect it.Monday 29th March 2004
I revisited The Trade Centre Wales and took another test drive. The car was without doubt much better, Mark Gosnell informed me that the plugs had
been replaced. However, there was still some hesitation and lumpiness when cruising below 3000 RPM. As a result of this I told Mark Gosnell that I didn't want the vehicle.
Mark jumped in and revved it to 3000 and said there was nothing wrong with it. A short discussion followed with another member of staff, whom I discovered later was Nicky Gee,
the General Manager, he jumped in and drove it once around the car park and pronounced it OK. He suggested I try it again, I took it around the car park and repeated that
it was when cruising below 3000 that the problem occurred, I asked him to get in and come with me and he obliged.
As I came out of the car park intending to turn left to the main road he stopped me saying there wasn't enough petrol in it and suggested I went right. On turning right
there is only a few hundred yards of road to a T junction, I turned right and after a few hundred yards the road was closed. Turning around I went back past the T junction and after another couple of hundred yards
Nicky asked me to stop, informing me that there was a lot of broken glass on the road further down so they don't take vehicles down there. I headed back towards the road closure, trying to replicate the hesitant behaviour
that I was complaining of, I could feel it but only for a short time before I had to slow down again. Nicky said that he couldn't feel it. I must stress that I am not doubting his honesty or integrity, it was not easy to demonstrate
on the short sections of road that I was being limited to.
Returning to The Trade Centre Wales car park, I again said that I didn't want the vehicle and he replied that was alright they didn't force people to take cars.
I went back into the showroom and spent about half an hour looking for an suitable alternative, only this time no salesman offered any assistance. Unable to find a suitable alternative,
they were either out of my price range, too small or too tatty, I enquired about a refund of my deposit.
I was directed back to Mark Gosnell, at first he said that deposits are not refundable. When I pointed out what had been written on the paperwork Subject to test drive he offered me a credit note. when I declined this
he said that I would need to come back to see Nicky Gee tomorrow, as he had already left. Tuesday 30th March back to The Trade Centre Wales
I discovered Mark Steed, who had not been around during my recent visits, by the front door. He said that he understood I wasn't having the car, I agreed and explained why, he said that he'd
driven it and there was nothing wrong with it. I said that I'd come for a refund and all he said was that I'd need to see Nicky Gee, who was down by collections. I asked him to come down with me and he went to get Nicky Gee while I sat and waited.
After a short time Nicky Gee appeared and explained that they didn't give refunds, apparently the only time refunds are given is when applicants are refused credit. I pointed out that Mark Steed had endorsed the paperwork Subject to test drive and his response
was that I'd had one (2 in fact Nicky) and that he was satisfied there was nothing wrong with the vehicle. I explained that I wasn't as satisfied as he, but apparently that is irrelevant.
It was also stated that I had requested work that another customer may not have requested and the Trade Centre Wales had therefore incurred costs. Referring to the paperwork, Nicky pointed out:
The vehicle had a PDI (pre delivery inspection). Yes, but I didn't request it, surely it would be done for any customer and its condition on the first test drive leaves me wondering if in fact it had been done.
The vehicle had been valeted. I didn't request it, Mark Steed had written this on and I took it to be part of "the service" and hence would have been done anyway.
An M.O.T. certificate had been obtained. Right, but this will be needed to sell the vehicle and I'm sure that will be soon as it has been personally tested by the General Manager.
The glove box had been repaired. So were they hoping that nobody else opened the glove box?
The inside trim on the wheel arch was repaired. This consisted of a piece of plastic trim that was loose!
The rear door had been touched up. Well actually it hadn't, at least not the marks I complained about which looked as though someone had tried to break into the vehicle by inserting a wire, or rod, between the top of the door and the door seal.
Conclusions
Keep your money in your pocket until you have driven the vehicle in a condition that you will accept.
I have no problem, with the policy of Deposits are only transferable and not refundable as I'm sure that garages need to protect themselves from unscrupulous buyers as much as buyers need to protect themselves from unscrupulous garages.
I have only myself to blame for, foolishly, inferring from the conversations with Mark Steed that the return of your deposit meant that I could have my money back. When obviously what he must really have said was,
if you are not satisfied with the vehicle then you can't have your deposit back. That would make much more sense wouldn't it?
I'm sure that those of you who listen more carefully than I, will hear this all the time when buying a used car.
The future
As The Trade Centre Wales has a £200 deposit of mine which is only transferable and not refundable then I suppose I have only 2 options.Mail me
In the meantime, if you have been foolish enough to disregard what is written in favour of what has been said or, probably more accurately, what you thought had been said. Then feel free to mail me at
IWG@ukideas.com and tell me of your experience of placing a deposit on a used vehicle. Time permitting I may decide to develop this theme further based on your responses.OFT revokes credit licence
It's no wonder that The Trade Centre Wales weren't too bothered by my little problem.
They had much bigger things to worry about. Losing a credit licence can't be a good thing for a car retailer.
"Nine offences under the Trade Descriptions Act" and "unfair or improper business practices"
GOSH, I thought they were nice people.
Each article is shown with its appropriate link so that you can verify the information
Addition to original press release: Please note that Mr Bailey has lodged an appeal with the Secretary of State against the OFT decision to revoke his licence.
PN 139/03 3 November 2003
Swansea-based motor dealer Mark Thomas Raymond Bailey has had his consumer credit licence revoked following action by the OFT. The OFT has also refused an application by The Trade Centre Wales Limited for a consumer credit licence. Mr Bailey is a director and company secretary of The Trade Centre Wales Limited.
An adjudicator revoked and refused the licences on the grounds that Mr Bailey had committed nine offences under the Trade Description Act and, in committing those offences, had engaged in unfair or improper business practices. In addition, the applicant failed to declare these convictions when applying for a credit licence.
The adjudicator was not satisfied Mr Bailey or The Trade Centre Wales Limited was fit to hold a credit licence. Accordingly, Mr Bailey's licence was revoked, and the application by The Trade Centre Wales Limited was refused.
Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, businesses that offer consumer credit or hire, or who introduce customers to businesses offering credit facilities, must have a consumer credit licence. The OFT has a duty to protect the interests of consumers by monitoring the fitness of applicants and licence holders.
In considering fitness, the OFT will take into account a number of factors including:
Director for Consumer Regulation Enforcement, Christine Wade said:
'Businesses must deal fairly and not attempt to mislead consumers. It is also a serious offence to giving false or misleading information, such as the non-declaration of convictions, on an application for a licence. The trader is therefore unfit to provide credit to consumers.'
NOTES
1. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 requires most businesses that offer goods or services on credit or lend money or are involved in activities relating to credit or hire to be licensed by the OFT.
2. The OFT can refuse or revoke a licence if it decides that a trader is not fit to hold one.
3. It should be noted that proceedings under the Act are not the same as those of a court and the adjudicator's findings are not the same as convictions by a court. Therefore where the adjudicator finds that an offence has been committed or a provision of the statute has been contravened, it does not mean that the person concerned has been convicted under court proceedings of that offence or of that contravention.
4. An adverse determination (a refusal to grant a licence or the revocation of an existing licence) can be appealed to the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry.
5. The Consumer Credit Public Register is maintained by the OFT. The register documents traders that hold a licence and any action taken against them. It also details traders that have applied for a licence. Enquiries can be made to the Consumer Credit Licensing Bureau on 020 7211 8608.
6. The determination to revoke licence application number 257307 was published on 30 September 2003. The licensee was Mark Thomas Raymond Bailey. The determination to refuse licence application number 513223 was also published on 30 September 2003. The applicant was The Trade Centre Wales Limited. The main place of business for both licensee and applicant was stated to be Eurocentre, Neath Abbey Trading Estate, Neath Abbey, Swansea S10 7DR.
Source
20/04 9 February 2004
The OFT carried out a total of 1119 licensing actions in 2003. Some 778 licence applications were withdrawn following challenge from the OFT, 228 warning or advisory letters were issued and 113 Minded to Revoke/Refuse notices. In addition, the OFT refused 34 licences and revoked 19 licences.
Offences taken into account in the refusal or revocation of licences include theft of vehicles, forging documents, taking risks with creditors' money, making false trade descriptions, taking monies without permission, drug offences, handling stolen goods, violent disorder and supplying false information on licence applications.
Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, businesses that are involved in consumer credit or hire must have a consumer credit licence. The OFT has a duty to protect the interests of consumers by monitoring the fitness of those holding and applying for licences.
In considering fitness the OFT can take into account a number of factors including:
Penny Boys, Executive Director of the OFT, said:
''Where we have sufficient evidence, we will use our powers to refuse or revoke credit licences to keep out unfit traders from the consumer credit market. But we need more proportionate powers to ensure that all those with consumer credit licences deal with borrowers fairly. We welcome the Government's intention to reform the Consumer Credit Act to give the OFT these powers.'
NOTES
10. Full details of licensees who are currently appealing against the
decision to revoke, or to refuse their licences are as follows:
Clayton Gifford t/a Gifford Cars, IMG Finance, IMG Hire & Leasing, IMG Cars, transport/second hand motor vehicles, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
Arun Limited, second hand motor vehicles, Pulborough, Sussex 512239
Edward Staniforth, t/a Mortgage Broking Services, financial services, Gateford, Notts, now Sheffield 302074
Mark Thomas Raymond Bailey, motor dealer, Gwent 257307
The Trade Centre Wales Ltd, motor dealer, Aberdare 513223
Dominic Andrew Bardsley, t/a D.B. Properties, estate agency, Stalybridge, Cheshire 390304.
11. Please see press releases (50/03),(104/03) and(138/03) for details of adverse determinations in the first three quarters of 2003.
Source
APPEALS TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE FROM DECISIONS OF THE OFFICE OF FAIR TRADING
The Secretary of State for Trade and Industry received two appeals, one from Mr Mark Thomas Raymond Bailey and one from Trade Centre Wales Ltd against decisions of the Office of Fair Trading revoking Mr Bailey’s licence and refusing the application for a licence by Trade Centre Wales Ltd. A public hearing of the appeals took place in Cardiff on 17 and 18 March 2004 before a panel of persons appointed by the Secretary of State to hear the appeals on her behalf. The panel made a report to the Secretary of State. Notice is now given that, on 30 June 2004, the Secretary of State, having considered the panel’s report and accepted its recommendations, decided to dismiss the appeals and accordingly directed that the revocation of Mr Bailey’s licence take effect and that the refusal of Trade Centre Wales Ltd’s application remain in effect.
Appeals Secretariat
Legal Services
Department of Trade and Industry
10 Victoria Street
London SWIH ONN
020 7215 3089
Source
SOUTH WALES MOTOR DEALER LOSES CONSUMER CREDIT LICENCE
A South Wales motor dealer with convictions for clocking cars has been stripped of his consumer credit licence after losing an appeal.
Mark Thomas Raymond Bailey, of The Trade Centre Wales, based at Neath Abbey Business Park, was appealing against a decision by the Office of Fair Trading in 2003 to revoke his licence, which enabled him to arrange credit for clients.
The OFT took action against Mr Bailey following two set of convictions, in 1998 and 1999, under the Trade Descriptions Act 1968 for altering the mileage of cars before selling them on. Mr Bailey had failed to disclose these and earlier convictions to the OFT in licence applications.
The Secretary of State for Trade and Industry accepted advice from an independent tribunal and dismissed the appeal.
The tribunal also considered an appeal from Mr Bailey's business, The Trade Centre Wales Ltd, against the OFT's decision to refuse the company's application for a consumer credit licence. This appeal was also dismissed on the advice of the tribunal.
Notes for Editors
1. In September 2002, the OFT informed Mr Bailey and Trade Centre Wales Ltd ("the appellants") that it was minded to revoke Mr Bailey's standard licence and refuse the application for a licence by Trade Centre Wales Ltd under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
2. Mr Bailey and Trade Centre Wales Ltd made oral representations to the OFT's Adjudication Officer. In September 2003 the Adjudication Officer notified Mr Bailey and the company that he had decided, on behalf of the OFT, to revoke Mr Bailey's standard licence and to refuse the company's application for a standard licence. In October 2003 the appellants appealed to the Secretary of State from these decisions. An appeals tribunal was appointed to hear the appeals on behalf of the Secretary of State.
3. Having considered the report and recommendations of the appeals tribunal, the Secretary of State decided that Mr Bailey and Trade Centre Wales Ltd were not fit to hold consumer credit licences and dismissed their appeals.
4. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 sets up a licensing regime for individuals, companies and firms carrying on regulated consumer credit or consumer hire business. This requirement extends to those, eg in the used-car trade, who introduce consumers to source of credit. Licences are issued by the OFT: it is a criminal offence to engage in regulated consumer credit or consumer hire business without one.
5. The OFT will not issue a licence to anyone it considers is not a "fit person" to engage in the business activities which the licence would cover. If it considers that the licensee is no longer a "fit person", the OFT has the power to revoke licences it has issued and to refuse to renew an expired licence. The OFT makes this assessment taking into account all the relevant circumstances. There are a number of matters which the Consumer Credit Act particularly requires that the OFT should take into account, among which are evidence that the trader has contravened provisions of the Consumer Credit Act or other legislation regulating transactions with individuals, or has engaged in deceitful, oppressive or otherwise unfair or improper business practices.
6. Before the OFT makes a final decision to revoke or renew a licence or to refuse an application for a licence, the trader concerned can put his or her side of the story to an Adjudication Officer at the OFT.
7. If the OFT decides to revoke a licence or to refuse the application for a licence or the renewal of an existing one, it tells the trader formally of its decision. The trader then has the opportunity to appeal to the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry.
8. Appeals to the Secretary of State under the Consumer Credit Act are heard by a tribunal of independent persons, appointed for that purpose by the Secretary of State. Both the OFT and the trader can argue their case before the tribunal. The tribunal then decides whether it thinks the trader is a "fit person" to hold a licence under the Act and submits a detailed report to the Secretary of State with a recommendation about whether the Secretary of State should allow or dismiss the appeal. It is the policy of the Secretary of State that, save in exceptional circumstances, she will follow the recommendations of the tribunal. Further the Secretary of State will not depart from the recommendations of the panel without first giving both parties an opportunity to make representations.
9. Once the Secretary of State decides that an appeal should be dismissed or allowed, she notifies the trader and the OFT of her decision. The trader then has a further right of appeal, on a point of law, to the High Court.
Department of Trade and Industry
7th Floor
1 Victoria Street
London SW1H 0ET
Public Enquiries +44 (0)20 7215 5000
Textphone +44 (0)20 7215 6740
(for those with hearing impairment)
Source
2 July 2004
A dealer in South Wales with convictions for clocking cars has been stripped of his licence to offer buyers credit.
Mark Bailey of the Trade Centre Wales, based at Neath Abbey Business Park, lost an appeal to keep his licence because he has two sets of convictions for altering the mileage on cars and selling them on to unsuspecting buyers.
Bailey had failed to disclose these and earlier convictions when he applied successfully for a licence to sell finance deals to motorists.
He appealed against the decision to revoke the licence last October and has been allowed to offer finance to buyers until now.
The loss of the credit licence does not prevent Bailey or the Trade Centre Wales from buying or selling cars.
You can check the background of a car, and verify that the mileage displayed is accurate, with a number of history checks including What Car? HPI on 0845 1232617.
Source
14:00 - 02 July 2004
A Neath motor dealer with convictions for clocking cars has been stripped of his consumer credit licence after losing an appeal. Mark Thomas Raymond Bailey, of The Trade Centre Wales, based at Neath Abbey Business Park, was appealing against a decision by the Office of Fair Trading in 2003 to revoke his licence, which enabled him to arrange credit for clients.
The OFT took action against Mr Bailey following two sets of convictions, in 1998 and 1999, under the Trade Descriptions Act 1968, for altering the mileage of cars before selling them on. Mr Bailey had failed to disclose these and earlier convictions to the OFT in licence applications.
The Secretary of State for Trade and Industry accepted advice from an independent tribunal and dismissed the appeal.
The tribunal also considered an appeal from Mr Bailey's business, The Trade Centre Wales Ltd, against the OFT's decision to refuse the company's application for a consumer credit licence. This appeal was also dismissed on the advice of the tribunal.
Source